My life would be very different today if I hadn’t met Peter Steele on a frigid night in Dibuque, Iowa in 1987. I was seven years old when Bloody Kisses was launched. I discovered the Green Man through his second group, Carnivore, an unsustainable thrash band that generated terror in New York and elsewhere from 1982 and 1990, rather than through the radio or TV clips of Type O Negative (even though their name was already on all merch catalogues). I came across the moniker when a vintage NYHC musician mentioned them as one of his influences in a fanzine interview. I was able to enjoy Type O Negative without having seen them, which is unlikely to happen nowadays.
After the group falsely announced his death in 2005 (these guys have always been big jokers), Peter Thomas Ratajczyk died in April 2010 from an aortic aneurysm. Fans of grim humour and deadly music mourned the loss of a true genius. We will not list Steele’s many accomplishments over his thirty-year career, his eight perfect albums, or his unthinkable collection of panties; rather, this new biography of the giant himself seeks to eulogise and humanise the coolest vampire in the world, the scene’s biggest troublemaker, the ladies’ man, and the legend. It’s a tall order, but author and metal encyclopaedia Jeff Wagner proven himself up to the challenge.
Noisey interviewed Jeff about Soul on Fire, his massive Steele retrospective (which is now available for preorder from FYI Press).
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Noisey: When and how did you find Peter Steele’s music?
Jeff Wagner: I was 14 or 15 years old when I first saw their name in fanzines in the mid-1980s, and when I saw the first Carnivore album at a record store, maybe in early 1986, I read the writing on the back cover and knew I was buying it. I fell in love with the band after my first listen and have been a fan of Peter’s music ever since.
Carnivore was a well-known crossover band, and Agnostic Front and Peter Steele collaborated on the Cause For Alarm album.
Carnivore were a crucial part of the hardcore/metal crossover, but Cro-Mags and Agnostic Front deserve more recognition. (And, if we’re outside of New York, DRI and COC are also relevant). Personally, I favour Carnivore, but I have to mention the other two New York bands first. Peter’s contributions to the Agnostic Front CD are unquestionably significant, but the band existed before to it and has continued to thrive thereafter. So, I believe Peter and Carnivore played a big role in crossover, but not entirely. As with everything Peter accomplished, it did not fall neatly into a single category. I believe that even Carnivore’s crossover album, Retaliation, was rather distinct from your “typical” crossover album.
I’d also like to discuss their clothing.
Because of the fur and guns, the Carnivore costumes were frequently compared to Manowar, and there’s likely some truth to that comparison, as Manowar was a New York state band that performed frequently in the city during Carnivore’s early years. And the members were just fans of the band. But Peter was more inspired by the Mad Max film series, with its grimy, survivalist, post-apocalyptic image that suited his first vision for Carnivore.
The accusations of misogyny and racism had long hung over Carnivore. People never seemed to get Steele’s highly dark humour, but it appears he wasn’t always kidding! How did you approach this aspect of the myth?
This is complex, as was Peter Steele himself. It can’t be readily explained or answered, which is perhaps why the book is 300 pages lengthy. This guy’s music and personality are multifaceted.
Peter was neither misogynistic or racist. However, he despised a big proportion of humanity and frequently appeared to despise himself. But I believe he directed his venom at those he thought deserved it. But he was also interested in constructing a dream world to escape into and make music for, as seen on Type O Negative’s debut album, Slow, Deep, and Hard, from where many of these charges arose. And don’t forget that he opposed many socialistic policies of the US government, such as the welfare system, and he despised the many individuals who used it as a crutch, an excuse to accomplish nothing with their life. And he surely has the right to his views. Many non-white people were also taking advantage of the system, and Peter was aware of this. He never made it a “black” problem, or anything like that. He disliked lazy, ignorant, do-nothing white folks just as much as everyone else. When you add in Peter’s excellent, caustic, sharp sense of humour, as well as the fact that he enjoyed playing devil’s advocate and stirring up the pot, you get songs like “Der Untermensch,” “Race War,” “Prelude to Agony,” and “Male Supremacy.” But is he a racist and misogynist? Definitely not.
Can a band like Carnivore exist today?
I do not know. I don’t like hypothetical enquiries. I believe that metal and extreme music have evolved in such a way that a band with similar characteristics may exist, and there are bands of similarly provocative natures available now. However, there will never be another band like Carnivore.
Peter has been interested in music for a long time, dating back to his first heavy metal band, Fallout, before Type O’s breakthrough. Did he always intend to pursue a career in music?
This book goes into great detail about Fallout. That band was a big step forward in Peter’s career as an artist. Before that, he was in a handful of cover bands with Josh Silver. Music was undoubtedly Peter’s destiny. He demonstrated leadership and creative talents at a young age. He never wanted to be a rock star, at least not one in which the focus was always on him. He would have like to remain anonymous, but as we know, that did not happen. Sure, he had a lot of ups and downs over his career. Everything is explained in detail throughout the book.
Was this book more challenging to write than your last one? How did you proceed? I read you also invited fans to join.
Writing a book is difficult. It’s hard labour. If not, you are probably not writing a decent book. And sure, it was more challenging than Mean Deviation. Mean Deviation was difficult because of the wide range of bands and movements I covered; organising and bringing it all together to create some sort of flow was difficult. The Peter Steele book was technically easier, and it came quite fast once I had completed the most of the interviews (over 50 people) and had all of my research organised. However, it was significantly more difficult emotionally. It was a delicate balancing act between finding out the truth and listening to numerous people close to him who had differing opinions or felt they could speak for him. Peter had an extremely powerful influence on people, and many who knew him closely brought their own level of possessiveness into the picture, and I don’t mean that in a negative way. That’s just the way things are, and that’s the authority he possessed.
Initially, I considered additional fan involvement, but this was not implemented. When the interviews with all of the people who were truly close to Peter began, a different story emerged, and I decided to use a slightly different approach. However, I enjoy hearing from Peter’s followers, whether it’s a tale, a question, insight into the music, or whatever. I’m a fan, too, and this is the type of book his admirers would like. I wrote the novel I wanted to write because I admire Peter Steele, and I hope other fans will feel the same way. The one thing I did that completely engaged the fans was to reproduce a collection of tattoos submitted to the publisher for consideration on one of the colour pages. The eBook version has more tattoos. I like this because it demonstrates his fans’ level of dedication.
I guess it was a lengthy procedure, and the editor informed me that you encountered some last-minute issues with the publication?
It was a gruelling procedure. I experienced a lot of sleepless nights. I desperately wanted to get everything right, but it’s difficult when you have three separate people giving you three very different perspectives on the same subject or question. There were some delays that put the final print version back by six weeks, but that was to be expected with this volume. Just a lot of hardships and tribulations, the majority of which I won’t discuss because they are basically uninteresting behind-the-scenes details. What’s most important is that it’s finally out, and I stand by it completely.
How come nobody has written a book about Peter Steele?
That’s exactly what I believed in early 2012! When I realised no one had written a book about him, I felt compelled to write one. And I believe I’ve written an honourable one. I understand that some people thought it was “too soon,” or that “Peter wouldn’t want a book written about him,” but my response was that someone was going to write it eventually, and I wanted to do the best I could for him. And as for whether or not Peter would want a book written about him, who can speak for Peter Steele? I’m not attempting to speak for him in this book. He expresses himself through his quotes and his songs.
Are Mr. Ratajczyk’s Catholic heritage and Polish ancestry relevant factors to consider while analysing his personality and art?
I feel he deeply identified with both of those aspects. His relationship with Catholicism was difficult. He identified as an atheist throughout the majority of his career with Carnivore and Type O Negative, but as many people are aware, he returned to his faith and embraced Catholicism in his later years. All of this is explained in greater depth throughout the book.
I had no idea dad worked in park maintenance in Brooklyn until 1994, and it was a really fulfilling profession for him. Is this why he was called the “Green Man”?
He earned the nickname “Green Man” because he worked in a park and wore a green uniform. He also associated with the name because he loved nature. He enjoyed his job and hoped to return to the Parks Department after his singing career was gone.
Do you remember how Slow, Deep, and Hard was treated by the press in 1991? It was the grunge period, and nobody was prepared for it!
I remember that most reviewers had no idea what to make of it. I don’t think it had anything to do with so-called “grunge,” but rather that it was so nasty and confronting, while yet being so hilarious. It was difficult for people to understand. It has highly experimental parts, completely accessible moments, and everything in between throughout the course of several extended tracks. The music was unique in appearance, tone, and song titles, leading to confusion for many listeners. As a Carnivore fan who was really interested to hear Pete’s new project, I thoroughly enjoyed it. It sounded to me like a more experimental version of Carnivore, which is exactly what it is.
Bloody Kisses is a sulphurous album, with darker and more impassioned lyrics about heartbreak. Was Steele a sensitive lover?
After interviewing several ex-girlfriends for the book, I have a better understanding of his romantic tendencies than I should have. Please don’t quote this out of context! Haha. But, yes, I believe he was a very devoted and caring lover. Much different from the reputed sexist, pro-rape persona he was depicted as in previous years. Peter certainly gave and gave more to his wives. Beyond that, my lips remain shut.
When do you think Type-O Negative become a “commercial band”?
There was no doubt about it: the Bloody Kisses album, and the combined impact of “Black No. 1” and “Christian Woman.” With the band’s rigorous touring labour and Roadrunner Records’ serious promotional work, as well as the cult status and controversy surrounding the album, it was going to break. And the tunes were simply great. They couldn’t just sit there and be “cult” forever. Peter wrote songs that were too good and appealing to a much bigger audience than anything he had ever written.
Steele appears to have tried to shut the critics up and clean up his act with songs like “We Hate Everyone” and “Kill All the White People”, didn’t he?
Yes, there were purposeful attempts to have the “last word” on the debate that had surrounded him up to that point, as well as to clear the slate so he could continue with Type O’s evolution. And this is exactly what he did. He never mentioned the pre-Bloody Kisses controversies in song again after those two.
Ironically, their follow-up album, October Rust, based on the notion of Vinland, went gold!
It was even more pleasant and palatable than Bloody Kisses. The delivery was smoother, and the songs were all similar in terms of atmosphere, texture, and direction. It was a production masterpiece, and Peter once again wrote some truly amazing songs. It’s not my favourite Type O album, but tracks like “Love You to Death,” “Die With Me,” “Haunted,” and, in particular, “Wolf Moon (including Zoanthropic Paranoia)” and “Red Water (Christmas Mourning)” are among the greatest the band has ever done.
Could we talk about the Playgirl photo session he conducted and the influence it had?
It was excellent timing. If he had done it during the Slow, Deep, and Hard era, it would have been a complete failure. However, the publication of the Playgirl spread could not have come at a more appropriate time. It was a moment when the band’s fame was on the rise, and their presence in Playgirl boosted it even more, at least among women! He had the appearance and physique to pull it off. It established him as a household name. I think it’s a really tongue-in-cheek move. For a guy who never took himself too seriously, I got the impression he felt everything was a big joke.
Who is responsible for the Type-O-Negative artwork, by the way? It is always fantastic.
Peter came up with all of the artwork ideas, just like he did the music. Other band members had input in some cases, but the concepts were primarily Peter’s, and he worked with numerous graphic artists at Roadrunner to see them through. I devote a significant amount of attention to this in the book because I believe Peter’s aesthetic/visual perception was as sharp, original, and stunning as his music.
The last three Type-O Negative LPs were especially terrible. He was a cocaine addict who also served time at Rikers Island. He seemed a little lost in life. Were these records announcing Steele’s impending death?
certain people told me, “Peter was a private person,” and in certain circumstances, that is completely accurate. However, all you need to do is read his lyrics to figure out where he was in life, as long as you can get past the self-deprecating humour and extrapolation that many musicians utilise in their work. that he may not have been that private – just look at the lyrics! So, certainly, these documents were a mirror for what was going on in his life and mind. The book delves into greater depth on some of the things and experiences that influenced his music.
Who began the rumours of his death back in 2005?
The entire band! That summer, they posted an image of a gravestone on their official website, which included Peter’s name as well as his birth and death dates. It was one of the practical pranks they pulled on their supporters and the general public. When Peter died, many people didn’t accept it at first, thinking it was just another fake like the one in 2005.
Where were you and how did you react when you learnt he was actually dead?
I was at home, just beginning my day, the morning after his death. As previously stated, I felt it was another fake as the news began to circulate. When I realised it wasn’t, it hit me hard, just as it did everyone else who had ever adored the guy. I was a fan of his throughout the 1980s, 1990s, and 2000s. I adored the Dead Again CD and was relieved he had regained sobriety and direction. I assumed he was finding new meaning in life and that his creativity would thrive. It was a horrible loss. His personality was so large, and his generosity and passion so great, that I can only image how devastated his bandmates, family, and best friends were.
Who would you choose as a modern-day Peter Steele?
No one. That is one of the reasons Peter and his music are still relevant today, and why so many people revere him. He was the one and only Peter Steele. There has never been anyone like him, and there never will be. There will never be another band like Type O Negative or Carnivore. These bands were an extension of Peter’s personality. They are unique and wonderfully special.
